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A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:50 am
by SEKI
In the field of elementary particle physics, the particle model seems to have been widely accepted, in which it is assumed that there exist extremely small elementary particles (regardless of whether point-like or string) in reality, and that the wave function is to give the existence probability of a particle.

By double slit experiments, however, it is indicated that a single quantum can interfere with itself. With the particle model, it seems unreasonable to consider it explicable that interference fringes are to be formed in double slit experiments with flux of quanta that is so sparse that only a single quantum can be present at a time.
  • [See, for example,
    Taylor, G.I. (1909).
    "Interference fringes with feeble light"
    Proceedings of the Cambridge Philosophical Society. 15. pp. 114--115.

    A. Tonomura et al. (1989).
    "Demonstration of single-electron buildup of an interference pattern"
    American Journal of Physics. 57, 117]
So, a quantum cannot but be considered to be more of a wave than a particle. In fact, quantum waves can be so defined as to include particle features. More specifically, quantum waves are assumed to be countable and to be able to be each localized in an area that is so small that the wave can be seen as a particle. Anyway, quantum theories are formulated as theories of waves, and particles appear only in interpretations.

If quanta are waves, it means that quanta are basically considered to be only phenomena in the space-time with quantum fields, which is considered to be the only substance existing in the most extreme sense.
  • [Consider a long tape stretched flatly and horizontally. If you pinch the tape at a point and flip upside down, a couple of twisted parts emerge on both sides of the flipped point.
    The long tape is a metaphor for one dimensional space, and the pinch and flip of the tape is that for creation of particle-antiparticle pair.]
In the following, a novel quantum model is to be proposed that has a mechanism for wavepacket reduction.

The features of the proposed model are:

(1)
Though a quantum behaves as a wave, it maintains its oneness while it exists.

(2)
A free quantum carries its energy and momentum as a whole.

(3)
For each quantum not to spread out unlimitedly, a kind of cohesive force, which may be like surface tension, is to be exerted.
  • [As an example, consider a photon traveling all the way from a far-away star. Without any cohesive force or some sort of cut-off mechanism, the quantum cannot but diffuse, be diluted beyond measure and end up disappearing.]
    [Suppose a photon with no cohesive force is traveling in the z-direction. If x and y components of the momentum of the photon are both absolutely zero (xy-spectrum width = 0), the quantum wave of the photon is already unlimitedly spread. Otherwise (xy-spectrum width is not zero), the quantum wave will spread unlimitedly.]
    [According to the traditional interpretation of quantum physics, one may assume that, as soon as the photon is detected, the existence probability of the photon completely vanishes at all points including those millions or billions of light-years away. However, any theory has its own applicability limit. From a commonsense perspective, the above assumption seems to be well beyond the limit. The problem may be which is acceptable, the above mystical assumption or introduction of unknown cohesive force.]
By virtue of the cohesive force, each quantum has only a finite size in the space even if it has specific energy and momentum.
  • [A free and isolated quantum is considered to be substantialized as a finite-sized wave packet (having finite length and width) and to have specific energy and momentum (if not, conservation laws can never be valid). According to the traditional theory, however, finite-sized wave packet and specific energy-momentum are not compatible. Introduction of the cohesive force makes them compatible.
    So, the Kennard (not Heisenberg) inequality is supposed to fail.]
Considering experiments using half mirrors and mirrors with light that is so feeble that only a single photon can be present at a time, a free quantum wave seems to be able to change shape enormously.

However weak the cohesive force is, Feynman diagrammatic calculation method is to be fundamentally changed and renormalization may get to be needless.

(4)
Let's consider a process, A+B -> C, where each of A, B and C stands for a quantum (elementary particle).
If a part of wavepacket of quantum A and that of quantum B get to overlap one another in the space, both overlapped parts are to be compressed as their motions are impeded due to interaction between the quantum fields of A and B. Compression of overlapped part of each quantum wavepacket and the cohesive forces may result in a kind of mutual absorption between the quanta. If the domains of quanta, A and B, both reduce to the same point or extremely small area, the above process is to be able to take place.

In the case of a single-quantum double-slit experiment, A is a single quantum that is to interfere with itself, and B is on the screen.

(5)
What is acknowledged as an interaction through so-called virtual particle is actually an interaction with a kind of polarization which can transform into a set of quantum and anti-quantum.

The vacuum space fluctuates so that, in each quantum field, polarizations can occur at any time and place. Each polarization can transform into a set of quantum and anti-quantum, whose total energy and momentum are both zero.
What is acknowledged as an interaction between particle D and particle E through so-called virtual particle F is actually an interaction among quantum D, quantum E and a polarization in the quantum field of F, which is to transform into a set of quantum F and its corresponding anti-quantum whose energy and momentum are to cancel those of quantum F. If quanta D and F are to interact in the manner described in (4), quantum E and anti-quantum corresponding to quantum F are to interact in the same manner.

For example, let us consider electron-electron scattering.
If an electron is to absorb a virtual photon that is paired with a virtual anti-photon, which has negative energy, in the manner described in (4), the other electron is to absorb the virtual anti-photon in the same manner.

(6)
Then, Let's consider a process, G -> H+I.
This process is actually an interaction between quantum G and a polarization in the quantum field of H, which is to transform into a set of quantum H and its corresponding anti-quantum whose energy and momentum are to cancel those of quantum H. If quantum G interacts with anti-quantum corresponding to quantum H in the manner described in (4), quantum I is created and quantum H is substantialized.

Particle-antiparticle pair can be produced when high-energy photon collides with a nucleus or the like. In this case, G is 'high-energy photon', H is 'particle', and I is 'antiparticle' that is created by exciting the anti-quantum corresponding to 'particle' by means of part of energy of 'high-energy photon'. It should be noted that no pair can be produced without a collision with a charged particle, which is to cause a reduction of quantum wave of photon.

A strongly accelerated particle with electric charge emits a photon. In this case, photon is created by direct stirring of the photon field. It should be noted that the shape of wavepacket of a strongly accelerated quantum with electric charge is to be distorted and intermittently reduce enough to emit a photon due to the cohesive force.


You may feel that the above quantum model is quite odd and half-baked, though I suppose that my model is leastwise better than that of Copenhagen, many worlds theories and so forth.

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:53 am
by FrediFizzx
Cohesive force = gravitational torsion.

https://www.mdpi.com/2218-1997/6/8/112

"On the Role of Einstein–Cartan Gravity in Fundamental Particle Physics"

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:39 am
by Guest
FrediFizzx wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:53 am Cohesive force = gravitational torsion.

https://www.mdpi.com/2218-1997/6/8/112

"On the Role of Einstein–Cartan Gravity in Fundamental Particle Physics"
I consider cohesive force is like surface tension.
Can gravitational torsion be like surface tension?

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:16 pm
by FrediFizzx
Guest wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:39 am
FrediFizzx wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:53 am Cohesive force = gravitational torsion.

https://www.mdpi.com/2218-1997/6/8/112

"On the Role of Einstein–Cartan Gravity in Fundamental Particle Physics"
I consider cohesive force is like surface tension.
Can gravitational torsion be like surface tension?
Don't know but what else could it be? There is no other mechanism to hold particles together unless it is the quantum vacuum that somehow does it.
.

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:03 pm
by SEKI
FrediFizzx wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:16 pm
Guest wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:39 am
FrediFizzx wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:53 am Cohesive force = gravitational torsion.

https://www.mdpi.com/2218-1997/6/8/112

"On the Role of Einstein–Cartan Gravity in Fundamental Particle Physics"
I consider cohesive force is like surface tension.
Can gravitational torsion be like surface tension?
Don't know but what else could it be? There is no other mechanism to hold particles together unless it is the quantum vacuum that somehow does it.
.
The essence of the model is introduction of new force, cohesive force, which is not compatible with the framework of traditional quantum theories.

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:32 am
by FrediFizzx
SEKI wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:03 pm
FrediFizzx wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:16 pm
Guest wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 10:39 am

I consider cohesive force is like surface tension.
Can gravitational torsion be like surface tension?
Don't know but what else could it be? There is no other mechanism to hold particles together unless it is the quantum vacuum that somehow does it.
.
The essence of the model is introduction of new force, cohesive force, which is not compatible with the framework of traditional quantum theories.
Ok, but what is the physical mechanism of your "cohesive force"? With gravitational torsion, the physical mechanism is the twisting of spacetime.
.

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:53 am
by SEKI
FrediFizzx wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:32 am
SEKI wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:03 pm
FrediFizzx wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 1:16 pm
Don't know but what else could it be? There is no other mechanism to hold particles together unless it is the quantum vacuum that somehow does it.
.
The essence of the model is introduction of new force, cohesive force, which is not compatible with the framework of traditional quantum theories.
Ok, but what is the physical mechanism of your "cohesive force"? With gravitational torsion, the physical mechanism is the twisting of spacetime.
.
I don't know. I only presented a model or a tentative theory.
I wrote "Without any cohesive force or some sort of cut-off mechanism, the quantum cannot but diffuse, be diluted beyond measure and end up disappearing".
Do you have any idea concerning a cut-off mechanism?

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:10 pm
by FrediFizzx
SEKI wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:53 am
FrediFizzx wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:32 am
SEKI wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:03 pm

The essence of the model is introduction of new force, cohesive force, which is not compatible with the framework of traditional quantum theories.
Ok, but what is the physical mechanism of your "cohesive force"? With gravitational torsion, the physical mechanism is the twisting of spacetime.
.
I don't know. I only presented a model or a tentative theory.
I wrote "Without any cohesive force or some sort of cut-off mechanism, the quantum cannot but diffuse, be diluted beyond measure and end up disappearing".
Do you have any idea concerning a cut-off mechanism?
Hmm... I guess you didn't read or understand the paper of ours that I linked to above. But here is draft copy of a recent paper that also demonstrates how gravitational torsion provides a natural cut-off near Planck length.

sims/Completion_of_Electrodynamics_forum.pdf
"What is the Missing Part of Electron Theory? Gravitational Torsion"

Enjoy!
.

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:52 pm
by SEKI
FrediFizzx wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:10 pm
SEKI wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:53 am
FrediFizzx wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:32 am
Ok, but what is the physical mechanism of your "cohesive force"? With gravitational torsion, the physical mechanism is the twisting of spacetime.
.
I don't know. I only presented a model or a tentative theory.
I wrote "Without any cohesive force or some sort of cut-off mechanism, the quantum cannot but diffuse, be diluted beyond measure and end up disappearing".
Do you have any idea concerning a cut-off mechanism?
Hmm... I guess you didn't read or understand the paper of ours that I linked to above. But here is draft copy of a recent paper that also demonstrates how gravitational torsion provides a natural cut-off near Planck length.

sims/Completion_of_Electrodynamics_forum.pdf
"What is the Missing Part of Electron Theory? Gravitational Torsion"

Enjoy!
.
You wrote "Cohesive force = gravitational torsion".
Did you mean my hypothesis of cohesive force was correct?

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 6:21 pm
by FrediFizzx
SEKI wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:52 pm
FrediFizzx wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:10 pm
SEKI wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:53 am

I don't know. I only presented a model or a tentative theory.
I wrote "Without any cohesive force or some sort of cut-off mechanism, the quantum cannot but diffuse, be diluted beyond measure and end up disappearing".
Do you have any idea concerning a cut-off mechanism?
Hmm... I guess you didn't read or understand the paper of ours that I linked to above. But here is draft copy of a recent paper that also demonstrates how gravitational torsion provides a natural cut-off near Planck length.

sims/Completion_of_Electrodynamics_forum.pdf
"What is the Missing Part of Electron Theory? Gravitational Torsion"

Enjoy!
You wrote "Cohesive force = gravitational torsion".
Did you mean my hypothesis of cohesive force was correct?
Well, sort of. I suspect it is a mix of gravitational torsion with effects from the quantum vacuum.
.

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2022 6:43 pm
by SEKI
FrediFizzx wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 6:21 pm
SEKI wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:52 pm
FrediFizzx wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:10 pm
Hmm... I guess you didn't read or understand the paper of ours that I linked to above. But here is draft copy of a recent paper that also demonstrates how gravitational torsion provides a natural cut-off near Planck length.

sims/Completion_of_Electrodynamics_forum.pdf
"What is the Missing Part of Electron Theory? Gravitational Torsion"

Enjoy!
You wrote "Cohesive force = gravitational torsion".
Did you mean my hypothesis of cohesive force was correct?
Well, sort of. I suspect it is a mix of gravitational torsion with effects from the quantum vacuum.
.
I am pleasantly surprised. Thanks a lot.
I wish you and related persons much further great successes.

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:00 am
by SEKI
I happened to come up with a cut-off mechanism.

After being created, the size of wave packet of an isolated free quantum is to expand steadily.
The motion of the quantum wave is impeded by polarizations in quantum fields which can interact with the quantum (cf. (4)-(6)).
So, a kind of refractive index is heightened inside the wave packet of the quantum.
Then, the expansion of the wave packet is to halt at a certain point (cf. optical fiber waveguide).

Just a half-baked tentative.
I wonder whether this tentative is nonsense or not.

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Mon May 01, 2023 12:36 am
by SEKI
By the way, is there any theory to explain
how a single quantum wave can go through slits
avoiding a bump into the screen in which the slits are made?

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2025 7:11 am
by SEKI
In consideration of quantum entanglement, I would like to add the following items.

(a1)
Quantum polarization can get so long as to extend from quantum-pair source to detector.

(a2)
Quantum polarization is to be formed with its spin pair undetermined.

(a3)
Quantum polarization can split into a quantum and an anti-quantum in a moment in which light can travel quite a short distance.

Weird, but less weird.
Don't you agree?

Just for fun.

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2025 5:02 am
by ben6993
Dear SEKI

In my particle model I have four preons in a photon and 24 hexarks in a preon. This should allow self-interaction effects.

The four preons in the photon have electric charge -0.5, -0.5, +0.5 and +0.5 which is net zero charge for the photon but allows repulsive and attractive charges acting within the photon, or self-interaction.

The photon has net zero strong force but there are positive and negative strong forces within the hexarks which hold the hexarks together, within and between, but cancel out overall the photon and the preons.

That shows I see the need for normalistion.

I do not understand what you mean by an "anti-quantum".

I do not believe that photon emission is properly understood in QM.

My preon model can model all Standard Model particles and their interactions. I have treated particle interaction of SM particles like chemistry is treated.

In chemistry, atoms are preserved in interactions of molecules. The molecules before interaction may be different to the molecules after interaction but the atoms are strictly counted in and then out of the interaction and are conserved.

In SM interactions, the SM particles before interaction may be different to the SM particles after interaction but the preons are strictly counted in and then out of the interaction and are conserved.

Whereas chemistry of old struggled to understand gaseous elements, the SM struggles to understand vacuum particles, like the higgs. Emission of a photon does not conserve weak isospin. The only QM property of the Higgs is weak isospin. My preon model include the higgs (generation 1 higgs with low or zero mass) to balance the books for conservation of preons for emission of a photon.

Acceleration will give the energy to cause an SM interaction just as heating a chemical can give the energy for a chemical reaction, but the energy alone is not enough in chemistry and it is not enough to balance the books for preons in a SM interaction.

Austin Fearnley

Re: A Quantum Model having a Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction (Revised)

Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2025 9:10 am
by SEKI
Dear Austin Fearnley,

I'm sorry I am not interested in your model, which seems to have no bearing on the topic of "Mechanism for Wavepacket Reduction".

Why don't you start a new thread of your own topic?